Date:Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:56:54 -0500
Reply-To:Jim Mantle <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:Discussion of Topics for Soccer Referees <[log in to unmask]>
From:Jim Mantle <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:Re: Ref screw up in 1-1-03 Liverpool vs. Newcastle
Players make errors, coaches make errors, referees make errors.
The player did not get the caution for the referee making an error, the
player got the caution for the player's dissent. He is control of his own
actions. Further, even when he had a caution, he then proceeds to earn
Yes, the player can be upset at a referee's incorrect call, and will
probably get some leeway from most referees when the player reacts. But,
IMHO, nothing condones dissent.
Life happens. Mistakes happen. Shit happens. Deal with it appropriately and
While I acknowledge that some people have had bad things happen to them or
those around them, and then later in life this previous incident influences
their actions in a non-favourable way, frankly I am disgusted at the current
trend in finding somebody else to blame your mistakes on, no matter how
distant or long ago that previous stimuli might have been.
Punch the snot out of your wife? Blame the school for not taming the
schoolyard bully that punched you out in grade 2.
Drive into a wall while talking on a cellphone? Blame the cellphone
Slice your hand by running your hand over the edge of the knife? Sue the
manufacturer for making a knife that works, but failing to document the
obvious in a way that even the most stupid will figure it out ("Warning:
Sharp edge. Will slice anything into many little pieces. Don't put something
in here unless you want it to be sliced").
Get a second yellow card in the game? Dispute the first yellow card because
the player went snake after the referee made a mistake.
Bullfeathers. Respond to stimuli in an appropriate manner. Live within the
rules. Take responsibility for your actions. But please don't let the
players moan "I was justified in my dissent because the referee made a
Don't tell the player "live with it". Tell the player "Dissent is never
----- Original Message -----
From: "jack barry" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: Ref screw up in 1-1-03 Liverpool vs. Newcastle
> The ref (name?) was right on top of play in the Newcastle end,
> at the corner.
> A defender and Liverpool attacker are torso/torso,
> chipping/shielding the ball.
> The defender's right toe then touches the ball over the
> end-line, and the ref, as the replay showed, wrongly called
> "Goalkick", and the Liverpool attacker goes nuts and is
> Cautioned for dissent.
> Later he gets his second Caution, and is off, and will sit-out
> the next game.
> I think this top-level league should have the right to waive
> the mandatory suspension, when a referee error precipitates a
> "ref dissent" incident. Sure, the player should maintain
> self-control, but the ref error has to be taken into account.
> Saying "live with it" to the suspended player is not right.