Date:         Sat, 17 Dec 2005 00:54:13 -0600
Reply-To:     Discussion of Topics for Soccer Referees
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Sender:       Discussion of Topics for Soccer Referees
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From:         Bill Liedtke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: is it a trip?
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Oops - that should be Player A goes over the leg in my last paragraph.
corrected below

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion of Topics for Soccer Referees
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Bill Liedtke
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 12:52 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: is it a trip?


YHTBT but doesn't sound foul to me.

To quote an older version of the ATR - "Players, however, may trip or fall
over an opponent as a result of natural play and no infringement of the Law
has been committed."  The situation you describe seems to fall in that
realm.  To paraphrase further, tripping is generally directed at an
opponent.  Here  player B not only was trying to play the ball, but in fact
actually played the ball and Player A fell over her outstretched leg after
the fair tackle of the ball.

Granted, getting ball does not make every tackle fair, but your facts make
no mention of Player B coming in out of control, or carelessly, recklessly
or with excessive force.  Your facts also make it clear that Player B did
not tackle for the ball in a manner by which she knew or should have known
that it was inevitable that the tackle would take Player A's legs out from
under her.  In fact you imply Player A had an option as to direction.

Now your fact situation gets a bit more complex if Player B tries to tackle
the ball and misses - and then player "A" goes over the leg. Then the ITOOTR
decision process becomes a lot more complex, and you have to really
determine the fairness of the challenge with a more skeptical eye.  And not
only do YHTBT, YHTBT for the whole game leading up to that attempted tackle
and have gauged the skill and temperature of those players.

Bill Liedtke
OKC OK 07 and waiting for the snow


-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion of Topics for Soccer Referees
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Christopher Seiwald
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 12:21 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: is it a trip?


OK, I see this a lot, the most recently at a high school JV girls game.

Team A player has ball.  Team B player sticks foot into path of ball
but not in path of Team A player and deflects ball.  Team A player changes
direction (possibly to follow ball) and falls over the greatly extended
leg of Team B player.

I've been saying "no foul," which is tough to sell because _everyone_ sees
player A fall over the leg of player B.  It is also tough to call because
the amount of turning required to fall over the leg varies: sometimes it
requires an about face, but sometimes the extended leg is just a slight
turn away.

Am I making it too hard on myself?  Should I just blow the whistle against
the player who plants her extended leg in any of the possible paths of an
opponent?

Christopher
USSF 8
Alameda, CA