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Date:         Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:48:54 -0600
Reply-To:     Discussion of Topics for Soccer Referees
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Sender:       Discussion of Topics for Soccer Referees
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From:         Bill Liedtke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Caution to both player and coach (WAS Enforcing 10 yards0
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As you will note, I did not mention cards in my original post since different sanctioning bodies have different rules regarding bench personnel. I have had unsophisticated teacher/coaches in HS games give improper instructions but have handled it with strong statements and without cards to date due tot he lack of soccer sophistication of the coach. In the FRD case with younger children, as I reflect, I can envision either a warning or written caution for the coach (sans card as you note) depending on my read of the coach. First time offence, I cannot see excusing him from the match - too strident a response. I also cannot see carding a young player following orders. This is all thought in the abstract, and perhaps knowing the context of the match is a key missing ingredient. Bill Liedtke OKC OK 07 -----Original Message----- From: Discussion of Topics for Soccer Referees [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Patrick Duffy Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:35 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Caution to both player and coach (WAS Enforcing 10 yards0 This is an occasion to remember that we do not give cards to coaches (or other bench personnel.) Only players or substitutes can commit misconduct and thereby earn themselves a card. Coaches are required to conduct themselves in a responsible manner. If they do not, you excuse them for the rest of the day. You might warn a coach to change his behavior, when, for example, frustration is approaching what would be dissent if a player were doing it. That's your decision as part of how you control the game. Leagues, particularly youth leagues, will typically treat a warning to a coach as a caution and a dismissal as a send off for their disciplinary purposes. But that part is not really our business. We're simply reporting what we did in the spaces on the form they provide. IMHO, this coach is not conducting himself in a responsible manner. He is telling children to cheat, loudly and publicly. That is not what a responsible adult does. Goodbye. YMMV. Patrick Duffy -----Original Message----- From: Discussion of Topics for Soccer Referees [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ed Marco Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 7:50 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Caution to both player and coach (WAS Enforcing 10 yards0 Bill, I wouldn't go as far as a caution/warning to a coach for this type of instruction to his players. Deal with the players. If the player tries to show you up by defying your instructions or the Laws then that is an easy caution. It's not like this coach instructed his player to go out and break his opponents leg. If you manage the players correctly you should have no problem with players giving and getting at least 10 yards. You can deal with the coach when you are closer by. Don't become the show. Ed Marco > When you hear a coach instruct a player to commit misconduct, and the player > complies - how do you analyze whether to sanction both coach and player. or > one or the other? I'm sitting here thinking it may just depend on the > situation - and admittedly I'm not looking at this from a "letter of the > law" standpoint so much as a game management analysis. In a younger youth > game with the FRD example, maybe only the coach gets a caution - older youth > players maybe just the player with a comment that he can thank his coach for > it. Repeated occurences would get both player and coach a caution and if > the misconduct is VC or SFP, they both go. > > Anyone have more elaborate rules of thumb? > > Bill Liedtke > OKC OK 07 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of Topics for Soccer Referees > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Jim Gordon > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:05 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Enforcing 10 yards > > > The comment was made: >> ... in a game ... where players are supposed to KNOW >> that they must be back or quickly moving in that direction >> and they aren't AND the kicker is looking at them and >> waiting for me to do something, I usually use a wave >> of the hand and voice like 'green, back up'. > > Too late and not enough. What was the rest of the defense doing while the > one defender was blocking the FK? > The term Free Kick is supposed to mean "free", not delayed or blocked or > hindered or limited. > > There was a further comment >> ... u13 premier level game ... a foul against red ... . >> As red starts to retreat, the COACH begins screaming at >> one of his players to 'get in front of the ball and >> make him move you back'. ... THIS specific instance >> resulted in a whistle to stop everything for sure; >> an 'educational experience' > > A missed opportunity. I wouldn't have whistled immediately, although I > WOULD eventually have held up this restart. I'd have told the coach, "If > that player moves too close, you're going to get your second caution." > (First for USB -- not behaving in a responsible manner and interfering in > the game; Second also for USB -- inciting player to commit an infraction; > The send-off might stick when he appealed, although I admit it could be > argued that it was all one offense.) The defender would benefit from the > explanation to everyone at the field that, as was written, >> ... one of the biggest 'myths of the game' >> is that 'they have to ask for their 10' ... > > Ten yards IS a right, and FRD IS misconduct (if it's intentional, IMO). > > Regards, > Jim Gordon

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