Date:         Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:20:37 -0400
Reply-To:     Discussion of Topics for Soccer Referees
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Sender:       Discussion of Topics for Soccer Referees
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From:         Tom Stagliano <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: In all my days...    a lesson
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Patrick

I know that others, in the past, have felt they needed to come to the
defense of a list poster if I have questioned "What happened?"  

Please, in doing so, you may be doing everyone a disservice.  

Josh stated a scenario that happened.  

Typically, I believe that people post on this list for one of two basic
reasons:  To provide us with a lesson, or to describe a scenario and ask for
our comments.  

Since, I didn't see a "lesson" in Josh's description, I felt it was the
latter, he was looking for comments.

However, rather than comment on a scenario with some important details
missing, I felt, that for a lesson, I should ask some questions to focus on
three things that I believe everyone can benefit from:

1.)  Why was the referee crew still at the field 20 minutes later and
available to talk with the dismissed player (after the game was terminated)?
Patrick, in your example of the Denmark game, I somehow doubt the referee
crew was available for discussions (on the field) 20 minutes later,
2.)	What were the ARs doing?   Everyone of us works as an AR in games.
What lesson can we take from this scenario that would help us be better ARs
when a.) a player is dismissed,  b.) a game is terminated
3.)   No matter what we say on this list, Josh will be thinking about this
game and discussing this with peers.  Indeed, he entered into a discussion
with us, as refereeing peers.  As peers, we want to help him work through
the entire game, not just the isolated scenario as he stated it to us in his
opening remarks.    By doing this, we all learn a bit more about people
management.   After all, refereeing is primarily managing people.

Thanks
       - Stag



------   Patrick's reply  --------
I'm not going to be critical of Josh's story here.  

First, I'm sure that Josh did not want to bore us with relating every
single detail in connection with this game's termination.  In short,
there's probably more to the story that he's passed on.

Second, I will not be critical of any referee's decision to terminate a
game in which he was assaulted.  I would point to the Denmark game
(don't remember who they were playing, Euro 2008 qualifying, I believe)
in which a drunken fan got on the field and assaulted the referee.  Game
over.  I'm sure that some people would say "Oh, it was just one drunk,
the police were there, no reason for the whole game to be terminated
after they got the guy off the field."  Not a single word of that,
however, anywhere.  The Danes were extremely embarrassed that their fan
did this and that their security people weren't able to prevent the
field incursion in the first place.  

Third, there is a huge amount of guilt that most referees feel after a
terminated game, whether it was due to referee assault or other reasons.
I recently assessed a State Referee on a game which he had to terminate
after a player assaulted an opponent and spectators came on the field to
join the fight.  The referee had never had a terminated game before.
Although I have told him several times since then that there was nothing
he could have done to prevent this situation, he is still feeling very
badly about it.  These things happen, rarely, but they do happen.  In
the case I just mentioned, the player has a horrible record of reds and
yellows over too long a period of time.  He also had a "spare" card, so
he's going to be sitting a long time for this.  There are a few lunatics
out there and the administrators need to get them out of the system,
because the other players, often including their teammates, don't want
to play with them.  It could just as easily have happened on someone
else's game.  We can only send off someone for this game, but the
administrators have to keep them from playing in the future.  "The
referee made bad calls" is NOT justification for assault and even the
bad boy's teammates know that.  Grilling the referee about why he did
this or didn't do that only makes the guilt worse.

I will agree that going back out and doing another game well is the best
cure.

Patrick Duffy