Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 2009 12:27:45 -0600
Reply-To:     Discussion of Topics for Soccer Referees
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Sender:       Discussion of Topics for Soccer Referees
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From:         George Parker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: The solution is worse than the problem
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The play I am thinking of was committed by John Terry of Chelsea against Manchester City in Sept of 2008. Terry was shown a Red Card when he pulled down Jo near the center circle on a breakaway. Referee Mark Halsey reported it as Serious Foul Play, under the meaning Jim McQ expressed. However, on appeal, the FA overturned the RC, ruling that SFP to means only "uses excessive force or brutality against an opponent when challenging for the ball when it is play"--not the not the broader sense of a serious foul against the spirit of the game.

George Parker

Videos here:
:44 of this one:
http://videos.sapo.pt/zaoiqzlllMhBKd6zRUAM

or 3:37 of this one:
http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/news/watch/v15896124MgjKQfbr#

Card overturned article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/7614903.stm




-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Sogge [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
I don't remember seeing that play so I cannot comment on the specifics.
 But, it seems to me there needs to be something beyond the "simple tactical
foul" if the situation warrants it. If foul+tactical => YC and
foul+violence_excessive => RC, what should foul+tactical+excessive be?  Can
a foul rise above misconduct (towards a player) to be "misconduct towards a
player _and_ against the game"?  Even if the foul does not threaten to
injure a player because it is just a "bear hug taking them to ground"?

When referees are "appalled" by something, I think more than simple
misconduct has happened.  Again, YHTBT.

Just a couple of cents ....

-- Glenn
Existence is not a predicate.


On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 9:40 AM, George Parker <[log in to unmask]
> wrote:

> Jim MacQ:
> ...... that Serious Foul Play is just what the name implies:? Any foul that
> is so serious that it warrants sending off.?
>
>
> Wasn't there a play 2 or 3 years ago in the EPL where, I believe it was
> Gerrard, rugby tackled a forward during an incipient breakaway.  It took
> place roughly in the center circle, so Distance and other factors prevented
> it from being a clear DOGSO.  A YC (tactical foul) was shown. Some referees
> were so appalled at the nature of the offense that they argued for a Red
> Card. The argument was that the play was so *seriously foul* that a RC was
> warranted.  I don't believe this was the consensus view.
>
> George P.
>